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...... Shock and Awe
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Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/17/2004 7:30:13 AM)




 Shock and Awe
The other day I was reading on-line newspapers about Hurricane Charley and I came across this odd statement by Jeb Bush:

When asked about why he made such a quick trip to Florida in this election year, (GW) Bush said: "If I didn't come, they would've said we should have been here more rapidly."

The Federal Emergency Management Agency was sending teams of medical, urban rescue and communication workers; at least 60 semitrailers containing cots, blankets, meals, portable toilets, wash kits and other necessities; and truckloads of water and ice.

FEMA said the state has requested catastrophic housing for 10,000 people, and more than 4,000 National Guard troops have been activated.

"It's going to be awesome shock and awe that's our goal," said Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's younger brother.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/news/081604_nw_bush.html

I remember how odd Jeb's quote made me feel but I forgot what it was that he had said. So tonight, still pressing on my mind, I started looking for it. It took a long time, but I finally found it again. His sentence seemed so out of place. It's going to be awesome, shock and awe, that's our goal? What does that mean? Shock and awe? Shock and awe as a goal? So I put his quote in google and man, was I shocked alright! Shocked ...and Sick.


Shock and awe is a military doctrine that calls for attempting to directly influence your adversary's will, perception, and understanding of events by inducing a state of Shock and Awe. It is not intended to replace the traditional military aim of destroying the adversary's military capability, but instead to integrate that destruction into a larger suite of actions intended to produce the psychological effect of "breaking the enemy's will to fight". The term was first coined by the United States in its 2003 invasion of Iraq. Opinion as to its success there remains divided as of early 2004. The expectation that most Iraqi forces would capitulate after the shock and awe campaign appeared to have been discredited when, during the second week of the invasion, coalition forces met stiff resitance from irregular infantry units in many cities of southern Iraq. However, the complete collapse of organized Iraqi resistance one week later countervails this. A military-historical consensus is thus not likely to be achieved until later, when Iraqi soldiers and officers can be interviewed and the impact of America's fighting doctrine on their actions be better ascertained.
http://shock-and-awe.wikiverse.org/#Commercialization%20of%20the%20term

Shock and awe

"Shock and awe" is the term the Bush administration uses for its massive hi-tech air strikes on the Iraqis. As a military strategy, it is discussed at length in a 1996 book published by the Command and Control Research Program (CCRP) within the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense of the United States.[1] Titled Shock and Awe: Achieving Rapid Dominance, the book describes shock and awe as a strategy "aimed at influencing the will, perception, and understanding of an adversary rather than simply destroying military capability."[2] In this respect, shock and awe bears a striking similarity to terrorism as propaganda, in which psychological rather than material dominance is viewed as a primary war objective. (The terrorist attacks of September 11 also induced "shock and awe" in the U.S. population.)

Christy


gar fla


Posts: 148
(8/18/2004 3:23:27 AM)



 Re: Why?
Does anyone know why the secretary of Homeland Security would tour the hurricane damage?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5738306/

Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/18/2004 5:23:12 AM)




 Re: Re: Why?
Hmmm, this is the first I have heard that.
Our news was quite about that one. Christy
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/25/2004 3:43:36 PM)



 Re: Re: Re: Why?
Well, from what I understand, parts of Florida had the electricity cut HOURS before Charley even got CLOSE. Ahem... WTH? I was born and raised in Louisiana, and we weathered many a hurricane at home, including Juan (and we lived right outside new Orleans at the time), and never lost power HOURS before it even started to come ashore. Even during Andrew people did not lose power until AFTER he was half way over land. During that last biggish hurrican e that hit Louisiana, my parents lost power early on for a bit. It did not flicker, as do lights in a storm before they go out, it just went OUT. And they are in CenLa now, far removed from the coast.

Things are hinky...
Jena
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/25/2004 10:52:48 PM)




 Why?
Yeah, it was weird. They started turning off power and water. Water I couldn't understand at all. They were going to turn off the power and water to Pinellas county but when Charley turned toward the east, they held off and in the nick of time too, because they were going to turn it off within the next hour....and that was 8 hours before landfall if it came up here. It's hard for me to believe those people STILL don't have power.

Christy
gar fla


Posts: 148
(8/26/2004 3:36:44 PM)



 Re: Why?

They turn the power off in advance to prevent damage to the major circuits. What hasn't been talked about and should be is the hurricane's impact on the November election. If Bush doesn't win Florida, you can bet they will make it an issue and we'll go through the same thing as we did in 2000.
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/26/2004 4:44:38 PM)



 Re: Re: Why?
"They turn the power off in advance to prevent damage to the major circuits."


Um, since when?? They sure as hell NEVER did that in all the years and hurricanes I went through. My older sis lives outside New Orleans, and during Andrew they sure as heck had power, as well as people I know who live in New Iberia and Lafayette! I cannot recall a single instance of power being shut off HOURS in advance of a hurricane coming ashore. 

That would be a lame excuse anyway, seeing as if a hurricane DID come ashore near one of these "major circuits", there isn't a dman thing they could do to prevent the damage to it anyway, off or on. Hurricane will do what it wants to do, period! 

Jena
gar fla


Posts: 148
(8/26/2004 6:54:14 PM)



 Re: Re: Re: Why?
They planned to shut off power only in the areas where the major substations can be damaged by the storm surge. That explains why it's not done in most locations. Believe me, there's no conspiracy to this. I'd be more concerned with why Homeland Security would have anything to do with clean up efforts after this Hurricane.

Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/28/2004 1:51:18 PM)




 Re: Re: Re: Re: Why?
They were saying that turning off the power before hand allows a quicker return (?) But that sure hasn't been the cases huh? LOL. The only thing that comforts me knowing the power is off is live wires in water. That wouldn't be any fun. But nobody mentioned that. Hmmm. Gar, did you see in the paper the other day, speaking of electricity, how this Clubhouse swimming pool was (in Pinellas) was being eletrically charged and the Power company had a hard time figuring it out. It had something to do with underground cables nearby and the pool was picking up the charge! Can you imagine jumping in without testing the water first??!!!! Man, talk about taking a dip!

Christy
gar fla


Posts: 148
(8/30/2004 2:56:58 AM)



 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why?
Christy, the people who still don't have power would be in the same situation whether it was turned off or not. Just think, that could have been us. Hey, what about Frances?

Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/30/2004 3:59:27 AM)




 Frances
Yeah, here come Hurricane Frances! Big one too. I'm hoping she swerves to the north and dies in the ocean. If it hits land it could travel across the state like Charley. we'll have to keep an eye on it. Let's see if I can post this live feed here and have it work.

goes east infra red hurricane sector image
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/30/2004 4:09:46 AM)



 Re: Frances
That tail she has should outta drag her out to sea again.  That's usually what they do. Too bad Nash Roberts is retired or dead now. LOL Worst weatherman in the history of New Orleans, but be damned, he could tell you EXACTLY where a hurrican was going to come ashore at EVERY TIME, with in 20 miles. Think that is why they kept him. *snicker*
Jena
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/30/2004 4:13:56 AM)




 Re: Re: Frances
Yeah, she'll probably curve and hit South Carolina! Man, they've been hit a lot lately. I had some friends that just moved there last month.
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/30/2004 4:16:26 AM)



 Re: Re: Re: Frances
Think further North... what city needs to be locked down from protestors?? Frances is crusing right along too... Bet they are helping her...
Jena
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(8/30/2004 5:17:07 AM)




 Re: Re: Re: Re: Frances
So let me ask you, do you feel that there is the technology to shift storms? ...Or to create them, for that matter?   Christy
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/30/2004 7:13:45 PM)



 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Frances
Yes, I do. As well as to dry up rain, create winds, etc. Freekin idiots have been messing with Mother Nature for decades. I do not think they have it totally PERFECTED as of yet, but they can do a damn good job of messing about with intent.
Jena
Allen at 5


Posts: 313
(8/31/2004 1:31:06 AM)



 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Frances
Lonelylittleme13 wrote on 8/30/2004 1:13:45 PM:
Yes, I do. As well as to dry up rain, create winds, etc. Freekin idiots have been messing with Mother Nature for decades. I do not think they have it totally PERFECTED as of yet, but they can do a damn good job of messing about with intent.

The "technology" HAS been perfected for a LONG time. The trick is the "operator". Reich learned all this back in the '50s- it is part of what got him thrown in prison and killed. You can brew up storms, steer them around- a whole bunch of happy stuff. Apparently, it is a whole bunch harder to stop a storm than to create one. Allen
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(8/31/2004 3:14:35 AM)



 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Frances
No kidding. Starting something is always easier than stopping it. Storms are like boulders. Once you get them moving, don't get in their way!!
Jena
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(9/4/2004 12:18:20 AM)




 Slow Frances
Frances is just creeping toward land. She has weakened but still a category 3.

A slow mover, that's for sure.
Lonelylittleme13


Posts: 45
(9/4/2004 12:27:32 AM)



 Re: Slow Frances
I'd rather have a quick one at a Cat4!! The slower they move, the more rain that falls in one spot and the longer the bad winds howl.
Jena
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(9/4/2004 12:40:58 AM)




 Slow Frances
I agree.

What bites is the roofs that come off. Ususally the structures themselves do okay (unless it's a mobile home) Doesn't seem to be much rain in Frances. She's going so damn slow you can't figure out what she's up to.

Allen at 5


Posts: 313
(9/4/2004 3:51:02 PM)



 Re: Slow Frances
The slow storms usually bring lots of rain. I look for Florida to get a good wash job with this one. Allen
Swedishoo
Admin

Posts: 690
(9/4/2004 11:32:14 PM)




 Over It
Even though the entire state is getting wind gusts and rain bands, that sucker Frances has still not hit land yet. Arggg. This is one frustrating storm! I am already over it and she's not even here yet!

Christy