| Author | Comment | Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:27:07 PM)
| Spraying and Deb's Formula
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Serious Spraying Today |
 Posted 11-29-2001 02:33 |
We have had a massive chemtrail drought in the Tampa Bay area, with the exception of some brief activity this past weekend. Today, they were at it again, big time. Most of the trails were the shorter variety, yet most intersected with each other. (coincidence?) One massive spreading trail, unlike the rest, had a red tint to it. By late afternoon, a small part of the eastern sky had an obvious patch of red haze. Since when do we have smog in only one portion of the sky? Even more unusual is that they are still at it, after 9 pm. It's as if they are making up for lost time. Normal contrails, my @ss! | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Just 45 Minutes Away |
Posted 11-30-2001 05:17 |
North Pinellas County
Gar, It's amazing. Today (thursday) we had perfectly clear skies on my side. (North Pinellas County, Gulf of Mexico, west of Tampa 45 minutes)
Yesterday the chemtrails were so fierce, it made me nervous. I was going to e-mail you about it. Matter of fact, I don't believe I've ever seen them so heavy. I was thinking what you wrote in your post...Gee, making up for lost time? I was out last night too and it's rare to see night spraying and it was shocking. The spraying yesterday and last night was patterned in hundreds of X's. I didn't stay out any longer than I had to.
There were also many sundogs or chembows, as I like to call them during the day, and a chem-halo around the moon last night. My little boy said as we were coming home, ohhh look mom, look at the pretty rainbow around the moon. Of course the mom and me says Ooooh, how pretty.
Christy | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| We are being PLASTERED today!!!! |
Posted 12-2-2001 19:34 |
Haven't seen it like this in some time. The thick haze can even be seen falling to the ground! (Hello sheeple. Time to wake up.) My nose and throat are itching as uaual. I have watched several of these white planes lay trails. Their fuselage is MUCH shorter than that of commercial aircraft. They are easy to spot. Where are they when we have no trails? I can't wait to hear the weather pepole rant about how beautiful a day it was. This can't really be America............ [ This message was edited by: garflorida on: 12-2-2001 19:30 ] | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Sunday Dec 2nd |
Posted 12-3-2001 04:21 |
Yep today was plaster city over here too. I had to run over to Tampa Dale Mabry and WestShore area and it was heavy everywhere.
I wish I had a digital camera. Tonight we had night spraying and trails criss-crossing infront of the full moon was so awesome looking. The moon's huge radius glow was an orange-yellow through the Chemhaze, and the trails were tasselled. What a sight.
Christy | |
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| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Well, Debbiechick seems to be concerned about what I see. |
Posted 12-3-2001 06:03 |
Isn't it funny. They keep saying that chemtrails are nothing but a hoax, yet they POLICE the chemtrail message boards. Mr. Rogers says "Can you say illogical?....Sure, I knew you could." | |
| JK from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Trails |
Posted 12-3-2001 06:18 |
Haven't seen anything much locally last few days
outside "normal" contrails at high altitude.
Odd thing with aircraft noise though on Friday
evening. Only jet visible was at high altitude,
headed Southeast. Noise was like it was at 1000
feet or less though. Very odd.
Al | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Riding it in First Gear |
Posted 12-3-2001 20:05 |
Yikes, Al, I've noticed that here too!! For the past 2 weeks jets have been so loud. Whenever I ask why, my replies have been, 'they're going to MacDill'. Why so loud?...and you're right,I'll go outside to look for it and what sounds to be crashing in the neighborhood, is extremely high up. Also, for the past few months, I've been hearing jets give off the sound where it sounds like they are gearing back when they come down...you know that air-thushing gearing-down sound jets make. Well, they've been making that sound while in the sky. Flying in 1st gear? LOL
Christy | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Get real, Gar |
Posted 12-3-2001 21:38 |
I have been predicting where the weather at high altitudes is ripe for contrails for over a year now. Yesterday morning I made a post at Mav's that Florida would get it on Sunday. Since no reports for Florida were posted at Carnicom's, CTTUSA or CC, I came over here late last night to see if Christy made any comments because I know she's in Clearwater area. I had already captured webcam shots just before sundown that proved, once again, I was correct.
Your paranoia is showing. Don't flatter yourself thinking any of the debunkers care what you personally say or think. You are just another mouthpiece with no research or proof of your "spraying" claims. Why don't you take a few hours and learn something, especially when you have been so into it for do long? | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| What ya so concerned about Deb? |
Posted 12-4-2001 00:09 |
You claim it's just a silly hoax, REMEMBER??? You became a born again skeptic a year ago, yet you and the debunking crowd focus so much attention on chemtrails. THERE IS NO LOGIC TO THIS BEHAVIOR. Well, that's unless we are on to something real. I've posted in much detail about how atmospheric sounding data will often show conditions which make contrail persistence impossible on days when the sky is filled with white streaks. I can see how you are trying to paint an incorrect picture of me. Your true colors are showing. | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Hump Day |
Posted 12-4-2001 02:05 |
Deb, what about Wednesday, November 28th? That was the worse day...Sunday was mild compare to the Wednesday prior.
Christy | |
| Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:30:03 PM)
| Re: Spraying and Deb's Formula
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Deb ~ Formula |
Posted 12-4-2001 02:22 |
Deb, is there a link to any reading material of your theory on-line or formulas of how you are able to predict area contrails/chemtrails? I would be interested in reading your hypothesis. Perhaps you could post it here or e-mail it to me if it is not on-line.
Christy
SwedishPie@aol.com | |
| Chickiedeb [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| 11/28/01 |
Posted 12-4-2001 05:16 |
Hey, Chritsy -
November 28 - http://cdebsjournal.topcities.com/Nov28journal.htm
One Year ago, November 28, 2001
http://cdebsjournal.topcities.com/Nov2000journ.htm
Like I said on the page, I just happened to come across some old correspondence while cleaning out files and remembered that's when I first started practicing my newly found skill. What a coincidence, huh?
Any days you want to check may be found here.
http://cdebsjournal.topcities.com/leadpage.htm
I haven't had time to get December's up yet. BTW, did you see any trails today, the 3rd? I know the Atlantic side near Melbourne had rain around sunset but I was out all day and wasn't able to check the webcams.
Thanks for asking. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Gar, get real |
Posted 12-4-2001 05:23 |
Gar, unless you are a UN-loving, socialist Green, you are not on to anything except something you don't understand or are willing to take the time to understand.
How old are you, anyway? | |
| Chickiedeb [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Formula |
Posted 12-4-2001 05:30 |
Actually Christy, I have not written out how I do it because no one has ever inquired before. I have offered to assist anyone on my website, but no one has ever written and asked.
I will make a concerted effort in the next few days to write it out for you. I'm just a little tight for time with the big hoho so near. I was just looking at photos the other day when we grilled burgers at Sand Key Beach on Christmas Day and the Christmas decorations on the Causeway. I envy you guys. | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| re: formula ~ Dec 3rd and Nov 9th 2001 |
Posted 12-4-2001 06:08 |
Deb, yes, I am very interested in your method. No hurry...I haven't been posting as much as usual...too much going on with me as well. Matter of fact, I've been interested in wanting to understand your method long ago but never asked because I thought someone over at Mav's would say some wisecrack comment.
Monday Dec 3rd I had no trails over my area. I'm not sure about Tampa, but in Clearwater ~ North Pinellas, we had clear blue skies.
Now, I remember on November 9th last month we had lots of trails. I took my mom out to lunch and shopping that day and remember it was a very heavy day. I looked in your archive area but didn't see any prediction of the 9th.
BTW, Sand Key is waiting for you.
Bring your suntan lotion
Christy | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Sand Key ~ Clearwater Beach |
Posted 12-4-2001 06:18 |
 | |
| Chickiedeb [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Nov 9 |
Posted 12-4-2001 14:30 |
You are soooo mean posting that pic! You have no idea what I go through having to look at weathercams of beaches and oceans. The only thing keeping me sane is that we are about to purchase our very first sailboat (used) and making plans. My husband says if I can learn to predict contrails, I can learn to navigate by the stars - yeah, right.
The captures in my journal pages are more for confirmation than prediction. Going back to 11/9, I see the RH at altitude, in the morning was around 50% but of course the temperatures were correct. However, going to Weathunderground History page, http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPIE/2001/11/9/DailyHistory.html
it's showing the day was cloudy. Don't the weather people usually say Trail Days are sunny or clear? That seems to be one of the complaints of the chemtrailers. Anyway, I looked around but couldn't find any detailed historical data for the 9th. Looking at the Fronts Map on the 9th, the only thing I can guess is maybe that High Pressure sweeping down had something to do with it. Do you recall if the trails lingered as lines or did they blow into whispy clouds?
ADDS isn't all that reliable. But confirmations run 99% whereas my predictions, which I just usually keep to myself run around 94%. I make the captures in the morning and then later in the day, so I can see where trails might form. Then the next morning, I go around and collect the "reports" for the previous day and with the captures commit them to a webpage. I use CTTUSA's calendar because it's in one place and anyone can go back and confirm what I journal. CTTUSA's reports and others confirm the captures.
This morning as I took the captures, I started writing out how to do it for you, except today there is alot of precipitation activity and it's hard to tell - which areas will, won't or when. Spring and summer are much easier and this IS "contrail season" afterall.
Gotta run. You'll be hearing from me soon. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| CHICKIE DEB |
Posted 12-4-2001 15:19 |
So, you can't present this formula for contrail prediction you keep talking about, when asked to do so. You then use terms for me like Un loving Green (whatever that's supposed to mean) and then ask my age? Oh well. Anyway, here is one of your debunking attempts. It talks alot, but doesn't say much. That's great for people who don't care about substance. Here's the real funny part. Just below the first map, note what is said - "For the sake of simplicity, the atmospheric conditions required for contrail formation will not be discussed" How nice. Just leave out the MOST IMPORTANT PART! ......... click here ......... [ This message was edited by: garflorida on: 12-4-2001 15:12 ] | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Simplicity |
Posted 12-5-2001 03:26 |
Gar, you mean to tell me that you have been hanging around this issue for what, 2 years now and don't know the atmospheric conditions for the formation of contrails? Now how can you say what you see are not contrails from normal air traffic if you don't know the most fundamental and elementary key to what you claim? That would be like me saying, "Gee, this ripe banana is sweet, but I didn't put any sugar on it, so therefore it can't be sweet, really."
You don't know, what you don't know more than what I thought so. Imagaine that, and heck, I'm just a housewife from Indiana. Perhaps you should go back to S'cool - http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/contrails.html
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/whatobs.html
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/cldchart.html
http://geography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fvortex.plymouth.edu%2Fclouds.html
And from my web journal page -
"If temperature and humidity conditions are favorable for cirrus, they are very probably favorable for contrails, though the inverse is not so probable because contrails can occur with zero humidity if the temperature is cold enough." http://www.met.nps.navy.mil/~durkee/MR3421/ProjectFS.pdf
When you know what the hell you're talking about, then you may address me. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| THAT'S NICE CHICKIEDEB, JUST SPREAD MORE DISINFORMATION. |
Posted 12-5-2001 04:28 |
I had pointed out the fact that you did not explain the required conditions for contrail formation.( BTW, its the conditions required for contrail persistence that are most important.) Also, you did not provide sounding data for the areas in question. I NEVER said I did not know the conditions required for contrail formation, and you KNOW IT! I have made many posts on Cliffords and Brent's boards about atmospheric soundings and required relative humidity for contrail PERSISTENCE (that's the key word here, Deb.) Here is a post from over three months ago....... click here ...... So, keep on spreading the disinformation. I hope your conscience bothers you. Then again, based on what I've seen I shouldn't have much hope........... | |
| Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:32:40 PM)
| Re: Spraying and Deb's Formula
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| KISS |
Posted 12-5-2001 17:48 |
Gar, here at the agency, we use the KISS methods - that is, Keep it simple, stupid. So why go through all that trouble with soundings map and RH caluclators when ADDS lays it out for you visually?
Disinformoation is a very broad word for people who can't handle the facts. Hate to disappoint but I only look at 3 chemtrail boards - Carnicom, CTTUSA, and Thermit's when I'm hard up for entertainment. I posted once at Brent's and your reply was rude as it was ignorant. Sorry, no time for followers and true-belivers, only for those genuinely interested.
I have to laugh how you ally yourself with those just like you, but I don't think you realize that they have an agenda. Chem 11 has never made a true statement about me yet, other than a test post by Daniece at Carnicom's board to prove that anyone can register under multiple monikers. Think real hard, Gar, how many people have come and gone just from Carnicom's board and where are they now? Hang in there, True Believer. Life goes on in the real world without you. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| To Chickiedeb |
Posted 12-6-2001 04:15 |
You talk alot, but don't say much. My point was that you made a false claim about me and I showed proof. If you and the others want to spend so much time and effort on some "so called" hoax which a very small minority of the population is even aware of, that's your choice. If you REALLY believe chemtrails don't exist, there should be no logical reason for you and the others to spend so much time debunking the issue........ [ This message was edited by: garflorida on: 12-6-2001 04:11 ] | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| KISS |
Posted 12-6-2001 14:06 |
No logical reason? Well, maybe in your mind. I can't speak for the others but I suspect that their motivation is entertainment, especially by those who are much more highly educated and experienced than you or I. (The only debunkers I corresponded with are Jay, goldrush and Seeker, very normal every day people. As for the others, they found me and my website through a skeptic message board, Trash Talk. Mav came on the scene on his own and Col. Dan was contacted by ChemtrailCentral members via AMAZON regarding NSAsucks because of a debt he was owed. It's all history and it's all on line if you decide to dig instead of believe what other people tell you to believe.) In case you haven't noticed, Jay has fallen back out of sheer boredom as the number of chemmie claims decrease. Not much fun any more debunking the same old, same old.
As for my motivation, it's because I was also guillible and paranoid enough to fall for the hoax. My story is on my website. When I "turned" it was only after 6 months of daily and serious invesitgation and research. Why do I continue to research every day? Because it's interesting, educational and it has become a habit and a hobby. I have learned so much in the past year that I have fallen in love with aviaition and intend to take flying lessons in the Spring. And I offer what I have learned to anyone else who also wants to learn except I've already done all the work by myself. I started out with Flight Explorer which showed the planes flying over my house every day, but I wanted to know more about the meteorological aspect of contrails. So what's so wrong about wanting to learn something new that I didn't previously understand? When I started posting at Thermit's after being banned from Carnicom's, I took the moniker, Nodebbunker - meaning NO DEBUNKER, and made my signature "Just a housewife from Indiana" because that's ME - I was no debunker and I am just a housewife from Indiana. I was just a former chemmie who had dicovered the truth about contrails.
As for the hoax part of it, details are on The Hoax TimeLine. William Thomas is nothing more than a Green who wants to see our aviation freedoms curtailed even more than what they have been by the Montreal Protocol. He also saw the opportunity to make a buck.
Carnicom is a land surveyor and not a bonafide scientist; that's why he keeps coming up with all the weird hypothesis and experiments, a proven tried and true method that greens do. No science; just ideas.
Planes have been modified and retrofitted to meet the requirements of the Montreal Protocol -the question remains if the contrails are effecting the weather and that I leave to the experts (Patrick Minnis and team) who have been working on it for years. I think they are alot more qualified than anyone you know involved.
I still challenge anyone to debunk with proof what I have concluded by using the ADDS weather pages.
There would be a heck of alot more information on my website, however there is a time element involved and I do have a real life. And it doesn't have room for silly conspiracy theories with no proof, especially when I have proven to myself that "chemtrails" do not exist. And that's logical. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| debunking |
Posted 12-6-2001 14:42 |
If you really have proven to yourself that chemtrails don't exist, it should b a dead issue for you. There should be no need (a year later) for you to spend all this time and energy with the issue. You said you have a life other than this, but it's hard to imagine how much it could be with all the time you spend on chemtrails. What also is hard to understand is why you have to keep on reminding everyone that you are "just a house wife from Indiana". It's as if there are reasons for people to believe otherwise and you can't blame them. Chemtrail believers are such a small minority of the population, yet the debunkers treat us as if we are such a serious threat to society. Again, a so called silly little "hoax" does not deserve that much attention. What really makes this seem like uch more than a hoax is the issue's silence in the main stream media. They won't even present it in a joking manner. There are things that just don't add up, that's all. We have every right to question it. Enough said for me on this thread. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| KISS |
Posted 12-7-2001 01:02 |
I never said it was a "silly" hoax - that's your description. It's a very serious hoax because it causes fear and paranoia to the point people won't go out of their homes when contrails are present - remember the WorldnetDaily article back in August? The lady with 7 kids? During October and November of 1999, I wouldn't go out either on contrail days because I believed by the powers of suggestion and persuasion that the contrails were going to make me sick. Why? Because I was ignorant. There are people who have allergies and other problems who won't get medical attention for themselves or their kids because they're convinced the 'chemtrails' are making them sick and take their health into their own hands. Now that's dangerous. And there are people who will go without food to pay their ISP so they can keep looking for the chemtrail answer, or who have cut-off personal relationships with family and friends so they can pursue their chemtrail research. I'm not going to name names, but I know for a fact these things have happened, and I hardly find that - silly.
Main stream media has covered the story but not to your satisfaction that contrails are something other than contrails. For example, the USA Today story- Sedona and Co. were creaming their jeans that the science reporter for USA Today was doing a story, that is, until the story came out. I'm sitting here at my desk looking at a videotape of an interview of Mike Castle from a major Dayton, Ohio TV affiliate back in May, which by the way was done very tongue in cheek. FOX has covered it as well as that TV station in Houston that interviewed Lorie Kramer and Dona Terry. My NBC morning weatherman, Chuck Lofton always points out the contrails at sunrise when they appear on the towercams. All I have to do is go to my computer, check out conditions on ADDS and turn on FE to watch the planes laying the trails to know they are nothing more than contrails.
The liberal and socialist mainstream media is so anti-America right now, don't you think if there was a possibility that if chemtrails exist that they'd be on it? They are working hard at discrediting Bush and the military, wouldn't chemtrails be a feather in their cap? There is no proof; it's an internet rumor. Even Carnicom says, "the assumption is chemtrails exist." Key word - ASSUMPTION. If and when the day ever comes that there is some bonafide and tangible proof to the chemtrail claims, I will humbly admit I was wrong. But two years and running and my research stands while everyone else has either gone away or still pursues by blind faith and assumption.
The point of repeating that I am just a housewife from Indiana is simply, - if I can do it, than anyone can. It's only a matter of taking the initiative to do it; stop following and believing what you are told, and find out for yourself.
As far as time, I bet I spend less time than you think. It took me awhile to get everything lined up but I just hit all my websites, bam-bam-bam. In fact, I spent more time on it when I was working than I do now that I am not employed. It's a hobby, it's fun and I learn something new about aviation or weather all the time. I have 6 pages for December so far and haven't put up one yet because I have something else going on. If the time I spend on this best kept secret of all time keeps just one person from going off the deep end, then it's all worth it. And from the tracker on my website and the letters I get, my time has been effectively spent.
I'm glad you're done with this thread because just like CHEM11, you're trying to pick apart anything you can and basing it on assumption. Unlike Carnicom, there are no assumptions from me, just facts. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| sunday sprayjob |
Posted 12-9-2001 22:08 |
Hummm...There has been little change in our weather or the atmosphere for the past few days, including today. From about 1pm to 4pm we had a vivid display of so called "persistent contrails". BTW, there are no approching fronts either. Trails were being made at a rapid pace. As I've said in the past, the white planes are hard to miss. I saw one of them flying along with no trail. Suddenly, the spray was turned on. I watched many of these white planes do their work, as if they ha some deadline to meet. Just before 4 pm, the trails stopped. The white planes vanished as well. Watching these folks, it's as if they are thinking "So much sky, so little time." | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Florida today 12/9 |
Posted 12-10-2001 01:48 |
Gar, I don't know exactly where you are located, but the relative humidity was right at flying altitudes down there in some places this afternoon.
I happened to take a break around 2:30PM est and saw a post at CTTUSA that Lake Charles, LA was in white out by 11AM, so I went to ADDS to see what the weather was doing. I also looked at webcam shots from CLearwater and St. Petersburg and didn't see anything but what appears to be clouds. I'll put them on a webpage and post it. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| 12/9/01 |
Posted 12-10-2001 02:41 |
What's with the clock on this board? It's only 9:30PM EST on 12/9!
Anyway, here's the page, sorry it took so long. There was a front approaching.
http://chickiedeb.topcities.com/Dec9afternoon.htm | |
| swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| North of Clearwater |
Posted 12-10-2001 02:47 |
We didn't have any spraying today in my area.
However I know what you mean Gar. It's VERY common to see trails once I drive toward Tampa or vise a versa...also, I know what you mean about getting chemtrail for only a couple hour period, like clock work. Mostly on my side of town it's the mysterious 4:30 trails. I hate that...it's so in your face obvious.
It's selected areas with selected times
Christy | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Tampa Bay spray event 12-9-01 |
Posted 12-10-2001 03:09 |
Here is the 3 pm sounding from Tampa International..... click here....... The temp-dewpoint readings for aloft altitudes are below the graph. Above the -40 C temp altitude, the relative humidity is below the required 70% level for contrail persistence....... click here...... Skew t plots during true persistent contrail events will show little or no seperation between the temp-dewpoint lines aloft, showing a near saturated enviornment. | |
| Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:36:49 PM)
| Re: Spraying and Deb's Formula
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Tampa Bay 12-9-01 |
Posted 12-10-2001 03:37 |
Soundings confirm aloft conditions impossible for contrail persistence. The persistent "trails" were only during about a three hour period in the afternoon. There is a cold front far to our north and is moving south, but was not close enough to our area to cause the required atmospheric conditions, as soundings showed. Christy, thanks for your observations today. The fact that you are about 25 miles to the north west of me and did not see trails confirms two things. 1) The persistet trails could not have been the result of a front and 2) The so called "contrails" had to be at a much lower altitude. Our chemtrail observations seem to bother some folks. I can't imagine why. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Which way? |
Posted 12-10-2001 13:22 |
Gar, what directions do your 'white planes' fly? Mostly east to west and west to east? | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| "Which direction do the white planes fly?" |
Posted 12-10-2001 15:28 |
The only time I see them making trails is when they fly from south to north, but not in the other direction. I'd like to see what atmospheric conditions would explain that. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Which way? |
Posted 12-10-2001 17:07 |
"Which direction do the white planes fly?" Posted 12-10-2001 15:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only time I see them making trails is when they fly from south to north, but not in the other direction. I'd like to see what atmospheric conditions would explain that.
* * * * * * * * * *
No atmospheric conditions would explain it, just Flight Explorer. Sorry, Gar, my question was of the trick kind because I already knew you are under North-South high altitude airways.
As I've told Christy, I'm not very good at instruction or explaining things, so I hope you can understand this response to your SKEW-T data:
http://cdebsjournal.topcities.com/GarChristy.htm | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Twisting the facts I see. |
Posted 12-11-2001 00:04 |
So I made a mistake about the time, 2pm not 3pm. Doesn't matter. There were trails at 2pm as well. 1) The soundings don't lie. You claimed that some the RH readings were 70%. That is FALSE. The RH calculator clearly shows that. 2) Those web cam shots show nothing. In fact, whatever direction you looked yesterday would look the same. The REALLY funny part is that those clouds were moving (drum roll please)....from south to north!!!! They were not an approching front, as you so desperatly want us to believe. As I said, the front was too far to the north. 3) Nothing is more "in your face" than sounding data. Showing all those maps and webcam shots says little. Hype does not win out over substance. Quantity does not beat quality. Your almost furious effort to try to prove me wrong is laughable. You went to the trouble to create a web page for it. L-O-L! You are either in serious denial that your concept of authority as only "looking out for you" is being shattered and you are fighting the truth you're afraid to face, or you have another hidden agenda. Another piece of twisted logic - Most debunkers spend more time and energy on chemtrails than the believers. Time to wake up and smell the coffee......... [ This message was edited by: garflorida on: 12-11-2001 00:00 ] | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| Which Way to Muscle Beach |
Posted 12-10-2001 18:57 |
Hope you don't mind me butting in with an answer you asked Gar, but I figured the more info the better.
I've noticed that most N to S and S to N flights are going to and from from TPA International. I consider these flight lines to be of normal dissipatiing contrails if any. However, I know I must sound like a broken record, but I have said so many times, that I wonder if there is a base out in the Gulf of Mexico. The Chemtrailing jets fly W and E mostly here, and alot along the coastal shoreline running mostly southward.
Now follow me here for a minute. Whenever I'm over in Tampa chemtrails are over the mouths of the Bay and larger bodies of water. When in Pasco county, trails or see over the lakes and Lake Tarpon.
It's hard to determine being that Florida has so much surrounding water, but I am curious to know if areas that are not near a body of water, are witnessing Chemtrail as often?
Christy | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Christy |
Posted 12-11-2001 00:16 |
I don't see many west to east trails anymore. I used to see much more of them in the past, well over a year now. Think about this. You are only about 25 miles NW of me and we see not only different trail patterns, but we have trails when you don't and vice versa. Most normal trails from commercal aircraft should be high enough so that it would not appear that much different from both our locations. This could only mean that the chem planes are much lower, just as I thought. | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Twisting the facts- |
Posted 12-11-2001 02:08 |
Gar, I think you need to chill out and go back and read what I wrote. I did it on a webpage because I'm used to writing them and I wanted to use HTML for links. I am not familiar with this board, but I'll give it a shot.
If you want to be credibile you have to get your facts straight so the time matter is imperative, especially when you are using data to demonstrate your point, ie. you said, "From about 1pm to 4pm we had a vivid display of so called "persistent contrails". Chemtrailers pick apart everything debunkers state, so it's fair play. If I am going to present you with facts, I am going to make sure the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted. I am not going to leave any holes, which is more than can be said for thou.
1) The soundings don't lie. You claimed that some the RH readings were 70%. That is FALSE. The RH calculator clearly shows that.
No, the soundings don't lie because they say *the same* thing as the ADDS maps. Both the Skew-T Soundings and ADDS are NOAA projects, so it's nice to know they correllate their information. Your second sentence about 70% doesn't make sense. Even if you rephrase it, I said nothing about any of the readings being at 70%. I said, "I didn't take the temperature data from ADDS, nor the winds aloft. But from the SKEW-T you give, beginning at 30,708 feet to 35,356 feet, not only does the RH increase from 50% to 68%, but of course, the higher you go the temperature gets colder." When I look at ADDS when someone reports a "chemtrail" occurence, I look at the RH first. If the RH is ripe, I don't have to look at the temps, especially this time of year. Oh, but I forgot, you don't understand what the change of seasons has to do with contrail formation as you stated to Seeker. But you do know that the atmosphere gets colder as you go up, don't you? I used your link to the Skew-T and your link for a calculator and the data resulting was as follows:
30,708 Feet Temp -34.2C= -29.56F DEWPT -45.4 = 50%RH
31,391 Feet Temp -35.8= -32.44F DEWPT -46.2 = 53%RH
35,456 Feet Temp -46.3= -51.34F DEWPT -51.9 = 68%RH
The above altitude is representative of commercial flying altitude where commercials will form contrails. So I don't understand what you see as "false."
2) Those web cam shots show nothing. In fact, whatever direction you looked yesterday would look the same. The REALLY funny part is that those clouds were moving (drum roll please)....from south to north!!!! They were not an approching front, as you so desperatly want us to believe. As I said, the front was too far to the north.
Yes, Gar. Whatever you say. The National Weather Service, NOAA and the other weather reporting services just lie all the time. Therfore, your Skew-T soundings would also be false, planes would be crashing and boats would be sinking. If you can't see what's happening in those webcam shots, then I can understand why you would call that front "a cold front." You obviously don't know much about weather. There is a cold front far to our north and is moving south, but was not close enough to our area to cause the required atmospheric conditions, as soundings showed. What does a front look like on the soundings, Gar? How can you tell a cold front on Skew-T from a regular day with high humidity at altitude? Just how cold did it there last night or today? Also, you didn't answer my question about the pick-up in the winds aloft as shown on your Skew-T. The clouds in the webcam shots explain it.
FLORIDA TEMPERATURE AND PRECIPITATION TABLE
: NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
: 738 PM EST MON DEC 10 2001
:...HIGHEST TEMPERATURE LAST 12 HOURS...LOWEST LAST 18 HOURS... :...PRECIPITATION LAST 24 HOURS...DATA AS OF 0000 UTC
:TAMPA :TPA 81 / 71 / 0.00
:ST. PETERSBURG/CLEARWATER:PIE 82 / 69 / 0.00
Doesn't sound very cold to me, especially when it's 39 degrees here.
The balance of your post prompts me to say this: I can only present the facts but I can't give you the ability to understand it. When I first learned it, I struggled with it until I did understand it and now it is a second language to me. I don't have to work furiosuly or fast with it because it is handily at my disposal. Again, I reitterate, this is one of my hobbies. Your rudeness and convoluted ideas of what you assume about me and what I do only demonstrates that you are easily influenced by others and are unable to think for yourself. Someone sends you a life line and you throw it back. Fine, drown. ASMF. | |
| Chickiedeb [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Which way to Muscle Beach |
Posted 12-11-2001 02:39 |
Christy,
I watched Flight Explorer this afternoon from 4:00PM to 5:42PM EST. Although I didn't see anything extraordinary, the question crossed my mind if you did see any east-to west or vice versa air traffic because there is a very large Special Use Area (SUA) directly west from your location out in the Gulf. I don't know what other airbases may be near you other than MacDill, and I don't know anything about MacDill or what they have there. I can easily find out but as I told you I am very short for time until after the 18th. I should have a webpage of the 17 captures from Flight Explorer for you soon though, with an explanation of what it shows.
Chemtrailers that I can think of, off the top of my head who report from areas around bodies of water -
everyone in Houston, Lake Charles, LA, you and Gar, FLkook in Melbourne, Richmond, VA, Baltimore, Washington, DC, Boston, Auburn-Lewiston-Portland, Maine, Akron, Ohio, Detoit, Phil from Green Bay, Wisconsin, Wisequakker North of Seattle, Seattle, Mark Sky & PocoLoco on the Oregon Coast, and of course, the California Coast crowd. (Looking at the map of the US on the wall in front of me and going around starting in Houston.) There are probably an equal amount of people reporting from the interior but not as often. I suppose if one was really interested, they could get the data from CTTUSA's calendar and analyze it. I tried one time but got too caught up in the details of weather conditions and flight paths. I get too sidetracked because that's the fascinating part of it all.
After watching your area today, I would very much like to work with you to do a study based on what I observed today using weather and FE, perhaps after Christmas if that would be convenient. For obvious reasons, I will hence forth contact you by e-mail. Deb | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| And the debunking persists |
Posted 12-11-2001 04:01 |
I provided specifics as to the conditions aloft, using the soundings. Your web cam shots, maps, and Flight Explorer are meaningless. They serve you by drawing the assumptions that make you comfortable. A great example of this is your saying "if the RH is ripe". Ripe? 50 % to 68% is still not "ripe" enough to support contrail persistence. You then bring up the point of the atmosphere getting colder with increased altitude. Nice try in giving the impression that I'm not aware of that. It's the relative humidity we're talking about. You even bring up the surface temperature. We are talking about conditions aloft. Your half assed reasoning methods of trying to prove me wrong have failed. I'm sure your maps, web cam pics, and Flight Explorer can "wow" the sheeple, but some of us know better. Rude? Yes I am. When you come on to these boards with your stuck up know it all attitude, you shouldn't be surprised. | |
| Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:39:19 PM)
| Re: Spraying and Deb's Formula
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| When all else fails, |
Posted 12-11-2001 13:03 |
Attack the facts and flame. Good little recruit (pat-pat) You serve your masters well. gurgle, gurgle, gulp, gulp. I bet you even voted for Ralph Nader. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| The false statements keep flowing..... |
Posted 12-11-2001 14:59 |
....from the queen of self righteousness and hyprocisy. If anyone reads this entire thread from page one, the intended purpose of this person is clear. I admit that I haven't learned my lesson of NOT giving attention to this kind of distraction. | |
| ts from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| man.... |
Posted 12-11-2001 22:55 |
I just get over a pulled muscle after reading cy and Al's bit o' fun in the news/politics section here and now this thread...lol...ouch !
hey gar, you still never answered this question I asked you at brent's...if you get some time, give it a shot...thanks...
>>>here's the beef...and try to stay focused...
the term "spraying" implies a direct release of or dispersing some type of substance from an aircraft...which from pic's of cropdusters,weather-mod craft, smoke generators and fuel dumps these type photos show beyond a resonable doubt that any said materials dispersed would appear to come directly from the source....
not form behind the aircraft engines like most every so-called Chemtrail photo that I have seen... i.e.(contrail)
debunk that gar....<<< | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| spray visable behind the aircraft |
Posted 12-12-2001 00:41 |
Normal contrails form behind the aircraft because, as we know, it takes time for the hot engine air to cool down. Much of the photos of planes thought to be spraying show the trail forming closer, but not directly at the source. Why?... The substance could be added to the fuel or even released through the engine's exhaust. Thinking that it would most likely be in liquid form before it's sprayed, it may not be visable directly at the point of release for the same reason that the engine vapor is not. When the spray reaches whatever it's freezing point may be, you see what looks like a contrail. Even if the nozzle were located somewhere else on the plane, the same reasoning may apply. | |
| ts from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| wrong wrong wrong |
Posted 12-12-2001 03:27 |
and I'll show ya....
>>Normal contrails form behind the aircraft because, as we know, it takes time for the hot engine air to cool down.<<<
ok you got that one right...
>>>>Much of the photos of planes thought to be spraying show the trail forming closer, but not directly at the source. Why?... The substance could be added to the fuel or even released through the engine's exhaust.<<<<<
gar,let me give you and example, if the substance added to the fuel is not water, it would form at the source...case closed...have you ever seen an old car's exhaust smoking ? ...oil leaks into the exhaust manifold and viola' smoke comes directly from the source...but when the temperature is cold all cars smoke...which is water vapor...get it ???
>>>>When the spray reaches whatever it's freezing point may be, you see what looks like a contrail.<<<<
again would have to be water to do what your trying to explain...your trying to equate evaporation / condensation to a mystery substance...
>>>>Even if the nozzle were located somewhere else on the plane, the same reasoning may apply<<<<
I don't think so...lol...see the above...
g | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| How spray could appear like contrails, forming away from the plane |
Posted 12-12-2001 04:19 |
Let me explain more clearly. I did not mean to compare it directly with evaporation and condensation. I said, being if the mystery substance is a LIQUID when released (not a vapor as in the water coming from the jet's engine), the "spray" cools down and reaches it's freezing point at a certain distance behind the plane. This change from a liquid to solid form causes a change in the way it appears, making it much more visable. I would compare it to the look of dew vs. frost. If you see your lawn from some distance and it's covered with dew, it's not that obvious. If it's covered with frost, you can't miss it.......(not so easy to debunk this one) I sense a very strong desire for the denial of spraying......... | |
| ts from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| things are what they are |
Posted 12-12-2001 08:55 |
>>>I said, being if the mystery substance is a LIQUID when released <<<
and like I said, have you seen a fuel dump...and liquid released would appear to come from the source...case closed...gar...
good progression series in the below link, and it's snowing :
http://www.geocities.com/theseeker_0714b/index.html | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| spray behind aircraft - case NOT CLOSED |
Posted 12-12-2001 15:46 |
So a fuel dump is seen from the source of release. Because of this, you draw the conclusion that ALL substances behave like this. How unscientific. You are trying to compare apples to oranges here. It's interesting how some just can't stand the idea that there could actually be spraying taking place. I guess some folks refuse to even entertain the thought that the authorities would do something like this. Yeah, not in America. I think this case is still open. | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Thursday 12/13 |
Posted 12-14-2001 01:25 |
You would think one of those air shows was taking place. They were laying the trails in all directions. One of the white planes had just made a fresh trail, when another plane comes along with no trail. It passed through the edge of the fresh trail, still not making a trail of it's own. Now, if these were just vapor trails and the conditions were ripe for their formation, that couldn't explain why two planes pass through the exact same location, yet only one leaves a trail. As with most events, the trails all stopped around 4 pm. It's as if they all had to be off the clock by then. At one point, I was sitting at a traffic light looking up at some of the action. I don't know why I'm even surprised that everyone else was completely oblivious to this. Can you say baaahhhh? | |
| Swedishoo from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Wednesday Dec 12th & Thursday Dec 13th |
Posted 12-14-2001 04:13 |
Tons of Chemtrails all day, but as Gar said ours stopped around 4 pm too. Doesn't make sense. Another oddity is how the chemtrails were in clustered groups over different cities. when the trailing is finally finished the sky is covered in nebula looking whispies, like something off a sci-fi movie.
Christy
| |
| Swedishoo
Admin
Posts: 690
(3/27/2004 8:57:58 PM)
| Re: Spraying and Deb's Formula
| chickiedeb [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
|
| What's that you say? |
Posted 1-12-2002 21:59 |
garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III And the debunking persists Posted 12-11-2001 04:01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I provided specifics as to the conditions aloft, using the soundings. Your web cam shots, maps, and Flight Explorer are meaningless. They serve you by drawing the assumptions that make you comfortable. Gee, Gar, what can I say? The word I have in mind starts with an "H" http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=5719.topic | |
| garflorida from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| You just can't help but wonder |
Posted 1-13-2002 02:17 |
When you think how much these chemtrail boards are policed by the skeptics/debunkers, could TPTB also be just a housewife from Indiana? | |
| Debchick [guest] from Chemtrail and Company III |
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| Chemtrail Message Board Police |
Posted 1-25-2002 01:46 |
Strike again. BOO! Now go back to clowneycon's and tell the desert rat how useless webcams are for viewing skies. Hers was the first one I watched on a daily basis over a year ago to compare with my research.
Have you figured out why SKEW-T's and ADDS say the same thing about RH and why they will both show the RH for contrail formation lower than what it should be? Well, I did. I asked a real scientist, not the former surveyor, perm solution, woo-woo pseudo scientist.
The agency has you pegged, Gar, and you are a marked man. Beware of the soccer moms and light bulbs that burn out faster than they normally do. | |
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